Violence Prevention Plan

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Paul Martin and Colin Rooke are joined with Sherry Timmerman and Grant Douziech to talk the importance of violence prevention plans.

Listen to the full podcast here, or read the transcript below.

Paul Martin:

Welcome to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers. I’m Paul Martin, the business commentator, and joining me today along with Colin Rooke, the Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist at Butler Byers. We have also Grant Douziech and Sherry Timmerman, and we’re going to be talking about, well, I guess what would be considered an emerging area, but business owners and managers need to consider when they are evaluating the risk profile within their organization. And Colin, you and I always talk about how do business owners manage risk, mitigate it, just lower the propensity for risk. And as a consequence, how do you then carry that through to talking to the insurance providers about, Hey, look at all the good work we’ve done. We deserve better coverage, better rates. We’re a better customer of the insurance industry. So you flag this as a topic that’s now something that’s rising to the surface. So just tell me what you’ve seen or heard and what are you hearing as a professional in the industry and why we should be talking about this today?

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, so we’ve talked on the show quite a bit about our risk reduction system, where we’re talking all things risk related, and it’s typically not directly pertaining to an insurance policy or a coverage inside that policy, but it’s more about identifying risk, managing risk, talking about ways we can mitigate risk, transfer risk, avoid risk altogether. And so we’re often talking about human resources type issues or just new policies and procedures. And so something that’s come up, which is, I guess now a requirement, is having a violence policy and prevention plan in the workplace. And so we were made aware of it by working with Apex Performance Consultants. So they pointed it out to us, we looked into it, we’ve gone through this, and I thought, okay, rather than talk at a high level about what we did and how it works, why not just bring Grant and Sherry on the show and they can explain why is this required and what is required and what you can do. And again, this is all just part of us working with our clients to make our clients better customers of the insurance market. So we would have clients that have employment practice liability, and these are having a violence prevention or violence policy and prevention plan is something that we would share with the insurance market to say they’ve gone through this, they’re doing what they’re supposed to. They’re a great customer. And so I wanted to bring Grant and Sherry on just to talk about again, why it exists. What do you need to do, that sort of thing.

Paul Martin:

Alright, well, let’s dig right into it. This is not a topic that is getting a whole lot of headlines or attention these days. And that’s the fun part of what we’re doing on this show is we get to bring emerging ideas to the forefront and to give business owners the latest update on things that they may not see but are on the way or are coming. So Sherry, maybe we just jump in here and get you to talk about it. And workplace violence, this is quite the terminology to start with, but I mean, where does this emerge from or what does it look like and why? I guess just intuitively we know why business owners and managers should care about it, but I mean, why has it not become a thing?

Sherry Timmerman:

Sure, thanks. So the Saskatchewan Employment Act does contain protections for workers against violence in the workplace. And in 2023, the government of Saskatchewan extended that protection to all employers in the province. It used to be just ones that were at more risk for violent incidents, but as of May, 2024, every employer in Saskatchewan must have a violence policy and prevention plan in place. And Section 3 21, if you want to get particular of the Saskatchewan Employment Act, identifies the requirements that you need to put one in place. And to the point about why this is happening, the government indicated that they just want to make sure that all employers are protected in the workplace, and they’ve extended that definition of employees to also include any contractors. You may have, any subcontractors, any students working, if you have any interns that come in and any volunteers that are doing work in your workplace.

Paul Martin:

That covers everybody. And governments tend to be… they lag, they don’t lead on these things. So clearly there must be an issue here that they’re responding to. Is that your experience that you’ve seen this become something that’s surfaced in the workplace?

Sherry Timmerman:

I haven’t seen it with our clients. Grant, do you have any?

Grant Douziech:

Yeah, I think what occurred, Paul, is that there were a number of incidents in high risk businesses and industries. Some of them had to do with health, some of them had to do with corrections. There’s a lot of different areas. And I think at some point the government thought it might be a good idea to extend this to other areas to make sure that a worker who’s working in a retail setting isn’t undergoing harassment or is at risk of violence. And I just thought that, or think that they thought it was a good idea to expand this, to cover all industries and to supplement the existing harassment policies that were in place.

Paul Martin:

That’s quite interesting. So when you talk to business leaders, I’m guessing they like me and the reason for this, for having you on the program today, they’re not very well plugged in on it. Most owners and employers really, if we said to them, you’ve got to have a violence protection and prevention plan in place, they go, what? Is that what you’re experiencing?

Grant Douziech:

Yeah. One of the challenges that, of course the government was being proactive in putting this into place, but where they missed the mark was getting the word out and putting out a lot of communication to small and medium businesses, especially that they required this. We would’ve thought they would’ve partnered with business associations to get the word out, so to speak, and to allow them to pass that information on to members. But that didn’t happen other than a few media inquiries and reports, there wasn’t much out there. At least not that what we would’ve expected of something, especially something of this magnitude.

Paul Martin:

Yeah. So I’m guessing you guys are kind of swamped then trying to put these in place for your clients and nevermind those who aren’t your clients. But I mean, just anytime you get mandatory legislation that comes in and it’s on a day and everybody has to comply and no one has done it yet. I mean, that’s a tidal wave coming at you, isn’t it?

Grant Douziech:

It is. And I think some are intimidated, even when you just mention what it is, a violence policy and prevention plan, a lot of them are probably overwhelmed with how much work this is going to take. Where do they start? Especially when they have other focuses on their business to target. I think that’s what has caused us to get a lot of inquiries to say, look, we need help with this. We just don’t feel we have the resources or understanding to how to implement this.

Paul Martin:

Well, this is really quite intriguing and enlightening to say the least. And we’re going to take a little break here, but when we come back, I want to talk call and get you to sort of opine on what does this mean for the insurance industry, and then how do we bring this conversation around full circle so that we identify the problem and then we start to talk about potential solutions and is there an insurance component to all of this? So just stick with us. We’re going to take a little break. We’re going to be back after this. You’re listening to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers. Back in a moment.

Welcome back to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Buyers. I’m Paul Martin, and joining me today, Colin Rooke, the Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist with Butler Byers and two special guests. We’ve got Grant Douziech and Sherry Timmerman from Apex Consulting, and we’re talking about new legislation that’s come into effect, well just a couple of months ago that requires employers in Saskatchewan to have in place a workplace violence policy and prevention plan. Probably news to most of you who are listening to this, and that’s the very reason we’re having this conversation now. Just before the break, we were talking a little bit about Grant. Sherry, you laid it out for us. What are the legislative requirements saying, Colin, what do you hear when you hear that sort of stuff? What’s the insurance angle on this thing?

Colin Rooke:

I talked earlier at the beginning about the idea of employment practices liability, and this is an exposure. I would agree that the rollout was soft. I’ve been doing the show for quite some time, and we all have our sources of where we gather our information, and I spend quite a bit of time doing it. And to say it was difficult to track down would be an understatement. And so I think, yeah, the rollout is soft. However, in, and certainly for this province in a situation around employment practices, whether there’s coverage in place or not, which of course is our job to review. If you’re facing litigation, there’s been an incident, you’re going to be treated more favourably if you’ve done what’s required. And so our job is to sit down with our clients and talk about what’s new and emerging, or in this case, what you need to do right now if you haven’t done it. And so it’s important to have this conversation and say, again, when telling your story to the insurance market, we share that, hey, we’re working with a proactive customer right now that is aware that they require the required to have a violence policy and prevention plan. It’s been implemented, they’re up to date, the rollout’s been soft, but they were on the forefront of this and this is how they approach their business, and this is how they approach risk in general. And so it allows us to tell that story and open doors that were previously closed, negotiate for credits that are owed to those clients or those customers that the underwriters, they’re not just going to give out. And so it’s great to know, it’s great to work and help protect our client and point them in the right direction.

Paul Martin:

You raise a really interesting point there about litigation, potential litigation. I wonder, grant, Sherry, if you could provide a little insight into the wording of the legislation. I mean, what are the obligations on an employer and what are the potential penalties should they run foul of this legislation? And really what do they need? Are they now the police inside their workplace as well?

Sherry Timmerman:

Well, as part of the requirements, the government actually does have a pretty good guide on their website called Preventing Violence in the Workplace. And it details the steps that you need to go through. And one of those things, when you talk about if an incident does happen and what the requirements are, that’s why you need a policy in place. You need the procedures in place so you know how to investigate who you need to report to. All of those pieces are covered off, and all of those pieces are identified as requirements of businesses so that if a violent incident does happen, there’s procedures in place, there’s suspect identification forms, vehicle identification forms, incident forms, all of that that gets completed and shared with your OHS committee and then with the ministry responsible as well.

Paul Martin:

Well, that sounds rather onerous. I mean, it’s bad enough when you go to business school and they just teach you finance. I’m sure they don’t teach you investigative practices at business school, but that’s effectively what you’ve said they have to become.

Sherry Timmerman:

It is a requirement that if an incident happens, you do need to investigate it. And yes, there’s protocols around that. So it helps if you have someone who can investigate or you can call on a third party to perhaps help you out with that as it is a requirement if there is an incident.

Paul Martin:

Sounds like a great consulting opportunity for retired police officers. Have we experienced anything yet, or is this too early? Do we have any cases that anybody can learn from? Are you aware of any?

Sherry Timmerman:

Well, I think of those high risk places, there’s probably already been a lot of incidents. As Grant talked about earlier, the reason that the government is extending this is so for the health and safety of all workers, not just those in high risk areas. So some of the things that as we’ve gone through and done, some of the employer surveys we’ve uncovered with some of the different clients we’ve been working with is perhaps someone is walking to their vehicle and there’s a person near their vehicle and they don’t feel safe. So some of those things have been identified. I don’t know of any, I can’t think of any specific situations with any of our clients that we’ve identified other than some potential situations. And that’s why it’s really important to work with your OHS committee with your employees, identify all of those potential risks, and then come up with mitigation strategies.

Paul Martin:

Well, just off the top of my head, I think back to, you remember that law that came in for late night gas stations? I think it was called Danny’s Law or something like that. It was about a gas attendant who had been, I think killed, actually murdered or something. And so legislation was brought in, you have to prepay your gas. You really don’t interact face-to-face with the clerks anymore. Is that the genesis of where this comes from? There’s a tangible one we could talk. Is that the kind of thing that you think governments were responding to?

Grant Douziech:

I think it was more related to those type of incidents, but more incidents in general where I don’t know if you’ve, even in a grocery store, it’s not unusual when I’m standing in line to find somebody who’s be berating or threatening a poor grocery clerk who’s just swiping their food stuffs.

Paul Martin:

So it can be as much as just a verbal interchange. Colin, jump in here.

Colin Rooke:

Having gone through the training, I think I can add some context. We had to initially you think, no, we haven’t. We haven’t had anything like this. And then when you go through the definition of balance in the workplace, you think, okay, someone that is upset that their plates are canceled and it’s a heated argument at the front, and someone had to sort of step out and say, we’re just a conduit for SGI, we aren’t SGI, all those incidents where you think, well, it wasn’t a big deal. But when you think about, okay, yeah, someone was quite angry and okay, yeah, we had to come to the front or we had to usher someone out. I mean, that all constitutes potential violence in the workplace, and it’s all based on how that person was feeling at the time. And so we talked earlier about, I think Paul said that business owners have to be investigative. That’s why our process allows us to identify these and then say, look, you can do it yourself. We can tell you where to go. You can go to the government website and get the point, form of all this work you got to do, or we can put you in touch with someone that’s very well versed. We’ll make the training easy, provide those documents, and then you can focus on running your company and not be bogged down. So I think it’s really important that everyone listening is aware that no matter how big or small you need this, and regardless of maybe the origin could have been the correctionals high risk areas, like Grant was saying, that it’s just important that you understand your risks and then where to get help.

Paul Martin:

Well, thanks for this. I mean, we’ve run out time. What an interesting topic this is. And Colin, as always, I want to commend you for bringing these new, emerging and developing business issues to the forefront and allowing us to put ’em on the program and to Grant and Sherry, thanks for coming and providing us with the content, the detailed information, and the expert knowledge that will help any business owners listening to this actually become better at what they do. You’ve been listening to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers, I’m Paul Martin. Thanks for joining us, we’ll talk to you next time.