Author: rockandbloom

4,000 Ransomware Attacks a Day?! The Hidden Cyber Crisis

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Ransomware attacks are surging again. In 2023, cybercrime payouts shattered records, with attacks happening more than 4,000 times a day in the U.S. alone. But here’s the twist: hackers aren’t just locking systems anymore they’re stealing sensitive data and threatening to leak it.

In this episode of Risky Business with Butler Byers, hosts Paul Martin and Colin Rooke uncover:

  • Why ransomware spiked again after a brief dip in 2022
  • How criminals evolved from encryption to full-blown extortion
  • The eye-opening stats every business leader should know for 2024
  • What small and mid-sized businesses can do right now to strengthen their defenses

If you think cyberattacks only target “the big guys” — think again.

Listen to the full episode here

AI and Insurance: What Leaders Need to Prepare For

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The Rise of AI: Risk or Reward?

Artificial intelligence is transforming the workplace — increasing productivity, reshaping jobs, and introducing new risks that business leaders can’t afford to ignore.

In this episode of Risky Business with Butler Byers, hosts Paul Martin and Colin Rooke explore how AI is shaking up the business world, from boardrooms to break rooms. They dive into:

  • How AI is changing the way we work in 2024 and beyond
  • The growing tension around job security and workforce unrest
  • Overlooked cyber threats — including the risks hidden in everyday tools like QR codes
  • Why forward-thinking business leaders and insurers need to act now to stay ahead of AI’s rapid evolution

Whether you’re excited about AI’s potential or cautious about its impact, this episode will help you stay informed, protected, and ready for what’s next.

👉 Listen to the full episode here

Lower prices with a catch

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Paul Martin and Colin Rooke discuss the state and health of the insurance industry.

Listen to the full podcast here, or read the transcript below.

Paul Martin:

Welcome to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers. I’m Paul Martin, the business commentator. Joining me today, Colin Rooke, Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist with Butler Byers.

Colin, we’ve had lots to talk about, a lot of current events, if I could put it that way. In the last few shows, and I thought maybe it might be nice just to step back for a second and probably been half a year or more since we last talked about what is the state of the industry, what’s the health of the insurance industry? And obviously that all trickles down to the buyer of an insurance policy ultimately. So maybe we could start with that. We’re three quarters of the way through the year. What’s the industry going to be seeing when it looks back on 2024?

 

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, it’s a good point and good timing. In our industry, we’re three quarters of the way into the year, but we typically get the data from right now, for example, the first two quarters that data is in. But to take a step back throughout Covid, so from 2020 to end of 23, we talked about the hard market and prices increasing, returns being very low or negative for the insurance industry. And so there’s a very select few groups that would’ve fared through that time to say, my pricing was relatively stable. And those would be very small simple accounts typically. But then we talked about the value of, okay, even though pricing is going up, there is still discounts or there is still room.

So do you want to be on the far negative end where you’re saying, well, my premium has doubled or tripled, or do you want to say, although I’ve received an increase, it’s only 15% because I’m putting in the work? So we talked about again, what happened from 2020 to end of 23, and the result of that is that end of 2023 was a very strong year for return on equity in the insurance industry. It well above three and five year averages. So they would say this stance, this pricing, these rate increases have worked, industry wide.

So you say, great, okay, so what happens now? So they’re making more money. Are we going to see prices come down? And the answer really is no, not necessarily. So now we’ve got banks cutting interest rates, and we’ve talked about this in the past where the insurance industry is very reliant on banks’ rate of return. Why? Because they take all your premium and it doesn’t just sit somewhere, they invest it. So then they say, okay, so we have pricing where we want to be. We’re growing, however low returns is going to impact our returns. So now you say, well, we’re going to deviate, so we’re going to deviate from our higher pricing. We got to get into growth mode, we got to get more on the books. So that’s great for the consumer because we have insurance companies saying, go get new business, not at whatever cost, but certainly they are out trying to get new business.

And then we have a third factor though that’s going to impact all of that. And then I’ll get to the point because we’ve got catastrophic losses throughout North America, Canada certainly, but North America wide as well. And so you say, okay, now we have to grow because the returns aren’t great, but we’re actually paying out a ton of money in these natural catastrophes, so we still have to grow. We still have to get the returns up. We don’t want to go back to where we were. So they are going to be very selective in who gets the real discounts, the deep discounts, I can’t believe it type stuff. And so you want to put in the work. You need your story told effectively to be that customer, not the one on the outside looking in saying, well, I really haven’t seen a change at all despite all these markets being in growth mode. So you have to put in the work because they’re still concerned about all the money going out on the backend for these catastrophes.

 

 

Paul Martin:

It’s an interesting comment that you made, and I guess intuitively we understand this if you’re in business, but it sometimes very healthy just to say it out loud so that it’s very clear. But insurance companies really deal with two things when they’re looking at pricing. One is what are the losses that are coming in and how do I manage those? How do I pay for them? So I have to charge enough in premiums to do that, but also they are buffeted by financial markets and as interest rates go up and down, so does the sort of way they can make money. And we’re in this mode where central bankers have been attacking with higher interest rates to defeat inflation. Looks like they’ve wrestled it to the ground to quote an old phrase. Now interest rates are coming down, but that you would think on the surface that should be good news. But actually for financial players, like an insurance company that actually has serious implications or significant implications for their ability to make money.

 

 

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, and a lot of people will come and say, well, if the whole industry’s making money, are we going to see rate relief? No. If you are taking in record premiums and not paying claims, you want to maintain that. The real driver of growth are these unpredictable returns in the market. And so again, great spot to be in, but they aren’t unaware of these rising claims. And so as a policy holder, what you really need to think about is the underwriting requirements that are going to be needed to okay, the deep discounts, the real discounts to see real savings to be the best in class as a term that we’ve thrown out. And so they’ve got more capital to deploy, but they’re going to be selective with it. And that’s where we come in. That’s where, again, you focus on underwriting information for sure, but more of it you have to ask the questions that the insurance markets aren’t asking. You have to build the case. At the end of the day, we are your advocate. We lobby our clients to the market and the more risk mitigation we can discuss, the more discussion around just the understanding of the nature of the risks of our clients and how they intend to address it and where there’s issues and the work being done to solve those issues. That is the most important component in today’s market.

 

 

Paul Martin:

I love the way you describe it because storytelling is kind of what those of us in the media have been all about. And here you’re talking about it from an insurance perspective. I think that probably might raise an eyebrow or two or surprise people, but it makes sense when you talk it through is that you’re making your case when you go to an insurance company, you’re making your case for why I deserve a different premium than what would be off the shelf, if I could put it that way.

 

 

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, absolutely. You have to really consider what is being said about my company. So again, back to the catastrophic losses. I mean, if you are anywhere near a major exposure, so you’re an area subject to wind, to rain, to hail, to earthquake, just flooding in general, forest fire, you’re not going to see what could be available to you unless you can educate the underwriter on what steps you’ve taken to minimize losses. They’re already going to say, okay, in your industry, let’s say it’s manufacturing, I am told to be more aggressive. I am told to get new accounts on the books, but the area you’re in concerns me. And so they’re just going to move on. And so you say, well, there’s a lot I could do to mitigate these risks or they’re not going to know that. And just saying that, well, it’s low risk isn’t going to help you. It’s that story. It’s putting pen to paper and really selling how you think and what you plan on doing today and into the future.

 

 

Paul Martin:

Colin, we got to take a little break. I want to pick this up when we get back. You’re listening to Colin Rooke, the Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist with Butler Byers. This is Risky Business. Back after this.

Welcome back to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers. I’m Paul Martin, and joining me today, Colin Rooke, the Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist with Butler Byers.

And Colin, just before the break, we were talking about efficacy and the effectiveness of storytelling and the fear of saying that I’ve got an insurance broker who’s a better storyteller than someone who makes a living telling stories. I want to explore this a little bit further and just that the root of it all, you can tell the story all you want, but you have to have some meat in the story, right? There have to be some facts. You have to be able to demonstrate to the insurance company, Hey, this client that I’m bringing forward as a broker is better than all the rest, and here’s why. And so what is the why in all of this? So if I am owning a company and I want to get in on the right side of what you’re talking about here, what’s my responsibility in this? What do I have to do?

 

 

Colin Rooke:

Well, you’ve got to get advice. You have to say, again, you got to think proactive. You got to think, the decisions that I make today, how is it going to impact me in 5, 10, 15 years? Think like a visionary. If you are planning, let’s say an addition to your building or you’re looking at a new location, reach out and say, okay, get some advice and say, how does this property look to the insurance market? You might be saving some money moving on the outskirts of the city, but ask the question, what are the long-term ramifications of this type of investment? Don’t build it first, ask later. Collaborate with someone that understands your level of risk.

And again, it’s not just about saying you’ll save 10% off the property premium. It’s really about ensuring the discount means so much more than just the discount. It’s the insurance market saying you are less likely to burn to the ground, which nobody wants. You’re less likely to flood, which you do not want to go through. And so sure, savings aside, or how about you’re not going to have employees with respiratory problems if you install a proper dust collection system. And so again, it’s about sure, some savings, but it’s also about, we’ve talked about just being a better performing business overall.

I’m going to jump on you too. I want to touch on, because everything so far has been property related, and I just want to give a quick update too on what’s happening in the casualty side, the liability side, and it’s kind of interesting. So you’ve got, in the casualty side, you have primary, so your regular insurer, whatever limits you buy there and you have excess. And so that’s the liability you buy over and above what you’re typically purchasing from your normal carrier. So this is kind of strange and very kind of a different way of looking at things.

The primary liability, so your regular liability, that has not changed much. They’re still concerned about paying out major claims, but the excess liability has gotten quite affordable. There’s a ton of competition in that market if you’re telling the story, correct. So a neat thing to look at now is do I reduce my primary liability add in excess because there’s a play there because there’s a lot of discounts available if the broker knows what they’re doing and if your story’s being told. So I’m just touching on that. There’s strategy around placing the policy as well that you need to consider. And the strategy itself will improve if the story improves, if there’s more to talk about.

Paul Martin:

That’s interesting, and you really just don’t get that from the annual renewal form that comes out, you don’t get that nuance. The notion of engaging in a dialogue with a broker that’s regular, consistent and ongoing makes a big difference in the way you position your story, as you say. But I guess also you just have to simply do the work too. You have to have to explain why you’ve taken certain moves and kind of just diarize it or categorize it or summarize it so that it’s actually available information that the broker can assemble into a coherent manner that the insurance industry will accept or understand.

 

Colin Rooke:

Exactly. I mean, at the end of the day, you should say, there’s a plan in place for my account. I understand what we’re doing, why we’re doing it. I understand what’s being said and how it’s being said. And so you should say there’s strategy. I understand the strategy, working a strategy both on the storytelling side and on the purchase and placement of my account. They’re working together. And that is how the process should be.

Paul Martin:

It is actually more than a transactional relationship. Then there’s part of it. It’s basically a teamwork exercise, isn’t it?

Colin Rooke:

Yeah and it needs to be, if you want to feel like again, you have appropriate pricing, you have a team that’s working on your behalf, that understands your company, and therefore the premiums you’re paying feel reasonable but also understandable due to the effort being put in. And the alternative is you fill out a short application. Sometimes there’s follow-up questions, or sometimes there’s follow-up applications, very generic, all goes to the same place, and you’re just given a price. And if you’re on the fringe of these cat areas or there’s just nothing more being said, you’re not going to get these credits that are being ordered by the insurance industry. And so again, you want to make sure that you’re confident in the approach to the account to make sure reasonable premiums are available to you.

Paul Martin:

Colin, we’ve only got about a minute and a half left before we run out of time, but I just want to sort of circle back to where we began this conversation today. And if I read it right, the insurance industries had some success financially, they’re kind of in growth mode now, but they’re being very selective about who they want to grow with. And I think your point is figure out how as a customer of the insurance industry, you’re one of the select few that they say, yeah, we like the look of your account versus all the other ones we’re looking at.

Colin Rooke:

Absolutely. So they have more capital, so more money to deploy than they’ve had in a very long time, but they’re going to be incredibly selective with that capital as opposed to a blanket approach where they just need clients. And the other big change for the larger files is that you have markets that can write the whole account. We haven’t spent a lot of time talking about subscription policies, but that’s often the case for a bigger risk. And so it’s nicer when you have one policy with one insurer, but again, and they can do it, but they have to be convinced. They have to say, you know what? We’re going to drop all the other players. We’re going to take it all in-house. In the event of a claim, you’re just dealing with one insurer, not several, which again, if you’ve been through that, you want to avoid that if possible. And so telling that story discounts, the whole policy should be written by one insurer, but they’re going to be selective because of concern of catastrophic losses in Canada and North America.

 

Paul Martin:

But it’s a good news story though, is that the hard market appears to have succeeded. It’s over, or at least it’s easing. And insurance companies are getting more interested in doing business, but they’re going to be very choosy about the new clients that they take on, or additional risks they take on from existing clients. And you have to be able to make your case to be among the chosen ones, if I could put it that way.

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, absolutely. So you might see some flat renewals, meaning very little change, but if you’re looking for, well, what about some discounts? I mean, it’s been three or four years of significant increases. It would be nice to go the other way. You need to be one of those customers.

Paul Martin:

You’ve been listening to, Colin Rooke, Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist with Butler Byers. I’m Paul Martin. This is Risky Business. Thanks for joining us. So we’ll talk to you next time.

 

Water, water, water

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Paul Martin and Colin Rooke discuss the impact of recent natural disasters on infrastructure and insurance claims.

Listen to the full podcast here, or read the transcript below.

Paul Martin:

Welcome to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Buyers. This is Paul Martin, the business commentator, and joining me today, Colin Rooke, Commercial Risk Reduction specialist with Butler Byers. And Colin, the news has been filled with catastrophic events of all kinds, and normally at this time of year we’re talking wildfires, but it’s a change of pace this year. We’re talking water, water, water.

There’s floods in Toronto from the tail end of that hurricane. There’s the water main break in Calgary, the one in Montreal. I mean it’s all about the elements of wind, earth, fire, all that stuff. And let’s talk water today. The water part floods water main breaks, I guess probably more specifically when a city’s water main breaks, we don’t think much about insurance on that one, but yet I guess many businesses were confronted with interruption in business, that kind of stuff. There really are a lot of insurance implications. Anytime you talk about one of these natural disasters or a major infrastructure catastrophe.

 

Colin Rooke:

To talk about just the idea of a water main break. If you’ve ever been impacted by water coming up either over land or through the soil due to a water main, you’re going to have water inside the premise, whether it’s a commercial building, a residential building. Those that have suffered through this know that there is not a lot of recourse. So you’ve certainly got an insurance claim, it’s going to be a bit of a mess. And your first instinct is to sort of point the finger at the city, the municipality, and that’s totally common, comes up all the time, but the reality is there’s very little recourse. There’s attempt set class action lawsuits. They don’t ever go anywhere. And the issue comes down to negligence. Sure, if the water main was installed wrong, there were some sort of faulty workmanship that you can prove, which I’ll tell you is almost impossible.

There could be something, but when it’s just due to load, we’ve talked on this show all the time about, we talk all the time about these increasing the frequency and severity of all these weather related events. And if it has to do with just infrastructure that’s just not ready or cannot take on that kind of load, and as a result there’s a burst, there is no negligence. And so you’ve got a claim on your hands, you’re going to be handling it yourself. It’s going to impact your whole neighbourhood, your whole area. It’s going to impact pricing for you. And on a lesser degree, everyone in Canada. And unfortunately, like I said, there’s not a lot you can do about it, but it sort of makes you think about a bigger conversation of, okay, well, I don’t want water in my basement. I don’t want water in my commercial building. We got to do something with this water. How do we change? How do we adapt? Because the data shows these weather related incidents are not going to go away anytime soon.

Paul Martin:

I’m understanding that there are experts who are saying the system that we have built here in Canada with basements because we want to get below the frost line to put all our pipes and that sort of stuff. And people have grown accustomed to having basements and rumpus rooms and all of that stuff. We do walkout houses now or the premium houses. And you’re saying they’re experts are saying, we should maybe rethink the whole notion of a basement altogether.

 

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, and if you think about, or the traditional basement, when people were first putting in basements, these were cellars. This was a cold, damp area that would frequently flood. There’s moisture issues, but the home was constructed where it wouldn’t impact the structure upstairs. And then people said, well, we want to maximize the livable space. Let’s frame out those walls. Let’s pour some concrete and we’ll live down there. Now, from a practicality standpoint, it makes a lot of sense. You get more room, more usable space. However, it’s horribly inefficient from a rainwater or a seepage perspective. And you could see now you’ve got larger houses sitting deeper in the soil because now we’ve got 9, 10, 11, 12 foot ceilings, we’ve got walkouts, we’ve got new development over top of swamp land that’s impacting those. And the reality that no one wants to talk about is if we want to start mitigating a lot of this water damage, or at least flooding, is we got to say goodbye to the basement. It’s a very, very Canadian thing to have a basement, but it’s also a very, very Canadian problem when it comes to claims. But steps need to be taken.

 

Paul Martin:

It’s ironic. I was traveling in one of the suburbs in Phoenix a couple of years ago, and it was a new division subdivision being built, excuse me. And there was a sign that said, basement’s available on request. I mean, it’s not a standard thing down there because they don’t worry about frost lines and what have you. But apparently they were getting so much demand from snowbirds who are accustomed to the basement. They actually now made it available. And it wasn’t an option that was just normal for people who live in Arizona on an ongoing basis.

 

Colin Rooke:

And there’s work that needs to be done with the insurance industry. There’s a term where, or really a policy requirement, that you need to reconstruct the home in the event of a claim you’re not as it was. And so if the insurer is saying, well, we’re only going to pay for what you had, we’re not going to pay for a version that’s going to mitigate water, then how does this get better? So if we can’t remove this requirement to have identical reconstruction, then how do we get to a place where people are learning if I eliminate the basement or at minimum reduce, change the basement, make it, I don’t want to say less livable, but a place where you might be able to congregate, but there’s not really a lot of stuff that can be damaged down there, less finishing, but the industry hasn’t done a great job of that. And of course there’s not a lot of education around this identical reconstruction, and therefore the issue remains.

 

Paul Martin:

Alright. I want to keep on this theme of natural calamities or catastrophic events that nature’s been delivering. And I want to come back to water in a minute, but let’s just take two minutes here before our break to talk about the Jasper wildfire. Fires are still something we’re dealing with. We’ve got evacuations in this province. It’s clearly, it’s another one of those years where we’re perhaps not the worst year, but certainly it’s a severe year. What’s the insurance industry seeing here?

 

 

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, just to give you some context, I’ve referenced Intact Insurance before on the show, and I do that because they’re Canada’s largest insurer. So then they’re going to have, if they’re giving estimates of their costs of these types of events, it gives you just a pretty good idea of the overall cost. And I believe they’re in the 960 million range estimate just for damages due to the Jasper wildfire. So it’s a really big deal. It’s funny because we’ve had so many water related events that somehow it’s been, I’ll say in our world, it’s sort of been overshadowed by the water losses. Obviously historic Jasper, it’s a really big loss for the country, but there’s just been so many water. We had record rainfall in downtown Toronto, I mean at levels that have never been seen before. And then it happens again in the province of Quebec. So it’s big event, big losses, but pales in comparison to the water related losses.

 

 

Paul Martin:

Alright, well, we’ve got to take a little break. So we’re going to come back and talk more about water in just a second. You’re listening to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers. I’m Paul Martin. We’ll be back after this.

Welcome back to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers. My guest today is Colin Rooke, Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist with Butler Byers. Colin, we’ve been talking about natural disasters, it seems this is that time of year when we get it, we see them in Canada. We’ll be in the next few months probably hearing typhoons and hurricanes everywhere. But when it comes to the Canadian season, it’s all about fires and floods in the summertime. Now I want to come back to that Toronto one, but in a minute. Everybody who’s probably purchased an airline ticket this summer has been affected by the Calgary hailstorm, the one that took out so many of the damaged the airport. I mean that put holes in the roof took, I don’t know how many of WestJet’s planes offline, and they’re only starting to bring them back now, the first one or two. That was a big one, wasn’t it? And we’ve talked on this show before. If you live in Calgary, it’s a hundred percent guaranteed you’re going to have a hail storm.

 

Colin Rooke:

It is. And so in 2020, actually around this time we are doing this show and talking about a hailstorm event that caused about 1.2 billion dollars worth of damage. We were then talking about the resilient roofing program that was created to help mitigate the damage to the structures of Calgary. And we talked about a guide that we have. We still have this guide talks about what kind of roofing you need, how to install it, the angle, what’s good for hail, what’s not good for hail. We dispelled a whole bunch of myths, and we talked about specific roofing that would reduce the amount of hail damage by, I want to say it’s 16 to 20 times. And then there was funding available that would mitigate the increased cost to put on this type of roofing. So it seems like a no brainer. However, and the point is not to pick on the city of Calgary in this program, but once the set aside funds were exhausted, it was not renewed.And then here we are four years later with a larger storm that is going to cause more damage than that of the storm in 2020. And then it just brings back the whole debate that we need to be thinking of weather related incidents like hail and building houses and maybe changing code for more hail resilience because after losses like this, insurers start to pull out of markets. And four years is a long time in the insurance industry, but this is fresh and you are going to see impacts from this storm across Canada. You mentioned the grounding of the WestJet flights. There are 16 planes that had to be pulled from the fleet, and I don’t believe there were any planes pulled from the fleet in 2020. So this was a larger size hail. The duration was longer, there was more water. But the city has a ton of damage, and I believe that it’s time to bring back these programs that encourages people to build more resilient homes.

 

 

Paul Martin:

It seems almost ironic or contradictory, doesn’t it, that we’re talking about too much water and hail at the same time as we’re talking catastrophic wildfires. And we even had one just on the outskirts of Saskatoon that took out a couple of houses and they used to be something you would see in the history books. Now all of a sudden they’re back and they’re with us. And earlier in a previous program we talked about there are things you can do to protect your property in the event of a wildfire. You’ll see the video footage after the fire is out and you’ll go down the street and every house is gone except one. How did it magically get missed? And in fact, it’s not magic at all. It has to do with the conduct of the homeowner.

 

Colin Rooke:

Back to the risk work that we do at Butler Byer’s Insurance, we talked about that very premise as well. And we also have a guide, we have several guides actually, that will walk you through how to protect your residential property, your commercial property, how can you be the most likely to be the one that’s still standing after the fire the Blaze has gone through. And a lot of it seems like it could be common sense, but it’s just not well known and people just aren’t doing what’s required. But we can help with all that.

 

Paul Martin:

And just a reminder, that’s all free of charge. People can just call you up and you’ll provide them with that information.

 

Colin Rooke:

That’s right. We’ll just explain what you need to do to become a better risk to the insurance market. And I do want to add another thought when it comes to these weather related events. So you’ve got insurers that are collecting claims data, and you’ve got municipalities obviously, that are recording these storms. But another challenge in our industry is the communication between the two. If you have municipalities working with insurers, developing these programs, sharing their predictive modelling systems, talking, really having a say on building code, we could start to turn the tides here. And I don’t really have a solution beyond just pointing out that if the two would work together, I think that this could improve. And being in the insurance industry, nobody likes increased rates. However, the insurers have to charge what they need to , to recapture the losses. So something has to be done if we’re going to go in the other direction and it has to be education. It has to be an industry-wide effort on improving the overall risks.

Paul Martin:

Well, that has been a theme of this program ever since we began, which is helping property owners, people in business, commercial operations. How do you become a better customer of the insurance industry? I mean, when we go to buy any product, but insurance in this case, I mean, what are we looking for? Best rates, best coverage. And the insurance company is prepared to go part way on that with you as long as you’re the best risk. And so this is what we talk about is how do you make yourself a better customer of the industry? And that’s what your step-by-step guides allow people to do. And I am thinking when we see these wildfires, for example, if you’re a cabin owner or a cottage owner or something, you must, this should be top of mind instantly for sure, especially if you’re in a wooded area.

 

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, the information’s out there. And if enough people work, so certainly in the home insurance field, if enough people put the effort in to become better risk, you will see rates go the other way. But maybe you can’t impact that. Maybe there’s just too many people not prepared to put in the effort. It’s never worth going through a claim. So if there’s anything you can do to reduce that, just to save the time, the headache around navigating a loss, being on the claims end of things, it’s worthwhile. And we’re full of information.

 

 

Paul Martin:

Listen, we’ve got about a minute left before we go. And I just wanted to touch one more time on those massive floods that hit Toronto. I mean, we kind of coupled into this as just society or our current society’s ability to maintain the infrastructure that’s needed to manage all of this stuff too. But are there observations that any learnings we have from the Toronto floods earlier this year?

 

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, I mean, it’s sort of the similar message that we have to change the infrastructure. We have, the draining, the drainage is not good enough for Toronto, though. The way the buildings are built, it’s not good enough and it’s easy to fixate on just one particular rainfall. But then they had follow up storms throughout the week that were almost equivalent to the record breaking rainfall. So again, this is a trend. Yeah, sorry, just looking at the data, 157 millimeters of rain at Trudeau airport, but then a few days later, they had another 120 millimeters, and both of those are up there as one of the heaviest rainfalls ever recorded. And so we got to start looking at again, getting out of basements, rebuilding homes differently, upgrading infrastructure and changing the way we use buildings.

 

Paul Martin:

The simple fact is 10 inches of rain in a week, you’re going to have insurance claims. Welcome to reality. Right?

Colin Rooke:

Exactly.

Paul Martin:

You’ve been listening to Colin Rooke, Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist with Butler Byers. I’m Paul Martin. This is Risky Business. Thanks for joining us, and we’ll talk to you next time.

Violence Prevention Plan

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Paul Martin and Colin Rooke are joined with Sherry Timmerman and Grant Douziech to talk the importance of violence prevention plans.

Listen to the full podcast here, or read the transcript below.

Paul Martin:

Welcome to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers. I’m Paul Martin, the business commentator, and joining me today along with Colin Rooke, the Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist at Butler Byers. We have also Grant Douziech and Sherry Timmerman, and we’re going to be talking about, well, I guess what would be considered an emerging area, but business owners and managers need to consider when they are evaluating the risk profile within their organization. And Colin, you and I always talk about how do business owners manage risk, mitigate it, just lower the propensity for risk. And as a consequence, how do you then carry that through to talking to the insurance providers about, Hey, look at all the good work we’ve done. We deserve better coverage, better rates. We’re a better customer of the insurance industry. So you flag this as a topic that’s now something that’s rising to the surface. So just tell me what you’ve seen or heard and what are you hearing as a professional in the industry and why we should be talking about this today?

Colin Rooke:

Yeah, so we’ve talked on the show quite a bit about our risk reduction system, where we’re talking all things risk related, and it’s typically not directly pertaining to an insurance policy or a coverage inside that policy, but it’s more about identifying risk, managing risk, talking about ways we can mitigate risk, transfer risk, avoid risk altogether. And so we’re often talking about human resources type issues or just new policies and procedures. And so something that’s come up, which is, I guess now a requirement, is having a violence policy and prevention plan in the workplace. And so we were made aware of it by working with Apex Performance Consultants. So they pointed it out to us, we looked into it, we’ve gone through this, and I thought, okay, rather than talk at a high level about what we did and how it works, why not just bring Grant and Sherry on the show and they can explain why is this required and what is required and what you can do. And again, this is all just part of us working with our clients to make our clients better customers of the insurance market. So we would have clients that have employment practice liability, and these are having a violence prevention or violence policy and prevention plan is something that we would share with the insurance market to say they’ve gone through this, they’re doing what they’re supposed to. They’re a great customer. And so I wanted to bring Grant and Sherry on just to talk about again, why it exists. What do you need to do, that sort of thing.

Paul Martin:

Alright, well, let’s dig right into it. This is not a topic that is getting a whole lot of headlines or attention these days. And that’s the fun part of what we’re doing on this show is we get to bring emerging ideas to the forefront and to give business owners the latest update on things that they may not see but are on the way or are coming. So Sherry, maybe we just jump in here and get you to talk about it. And workplace violence, this is quite the terminology to start with, but I mean, where does this emerge from or what does it look like and why? I guess just intuitively we know why business owners and managers should care about it, but I mean, why has it not become a thing?

Sherry Timmerman:

Sure, thanks. So the Saskatchewan Employment Act does contain protections for workers against violence in the workplace. And in 2023, the government of Saskatchewan extended that protection to all employers in the province. It used to be just ones that were at more risk for violent incidents, but as of May, 2024, every employer in Saskatchewan must have a violence policy and prevention plan in place. And Section 3 21, if you want to get particular of the Saskatchewan Employment Act, identifies the requirements that you need to put one in place. And to the point about why this is happening, the government indicated that they just want to make sure that all employers are protected in the workplace, and they’ve extended that definition of employees to also include any contractors. You may have, any subcontractors, any students working, if you have any interns that come in and any volunteers that are doing work in your workplace.

Paul Martin:

That covers everybody. And governments tend to be… they lag, they don’t lead on these things. So clearly there must be an issue here that they’re responding to. Is that your experience that you’ve seen this become something that’s surfaced in the workplace?

Sherry Timmerman:

I haven’t seen it with our clients. Grant, do you have any?

Grant Douziech:

Yeah, I think what occurred, Paul, is that there were a number of incidents in high risk businesses and industries. Some of them had to do with health, some of them had to do with corrections. There’s a lot of different areas. And I think at some point the government thought it might be a good idea to extend this to other areas to make sure that a worker who’s working in a retail setting isn’t undergoing harassment or is at risk of violence. And I just thought that, or think that they thought it was a good idea to expand this, to cover all industries and to supplement the existing harassment policies that were in place.

Paul Martin:

That’s quite interesting. So when you talk to business leaders, I’m guessing they like me and the reason for this, for having you on the program today, they’re not very well plugged in on it. Most owners and employers really, if we said to them, you’ve got to have a violence protection and prevention plan in place, they go, what? Is that what you’re experiencing?

Grant Douziech:

Yeah. One of the challenges that, of course the government was being proactive in putting this into place, but where they missed the mark was getting the word out and putting out a lot of communication to small and medium businesses, especially that they required this. We would’ve thought they would’ve partnered with business associations to get the word out, so to speak, and to allow them to pass that information on to members. But that didn’t happen other than a few media inquiries and reports, there wasn’t much out there. At least not that what we would’ve expected of something, especially something of this magnitude.

Paul Martin:

Yeah. So I’m guessing you guys are kind of swamped then trying to put these in place for your clients and nevermind those who aren’t your clients. But I mean, just anytime you get mandatory legislation that comes in and it’s on a day and everybody has to comply and no one has done it yet. I mean, that’s a tidal wave coming at you, isn’t it?

Grant Douziech:

It is. And I think some are intimidated, even when you just mention what it is, a violence policy and prevention plan, a lot of them are probably overwhelmed with how much work this is going to take. Where do they start? Especially when they have other focuses on their business to target. I think that’s what has caused us to get a lot of inquiries to say, look, we need help with this. We just don’t feel we have the resources or understanding to how to implement this.

Paul Martin:

Well, this is really quite intriguing and enlightening to say the least. And we’re going to take a little break here, but when we come back, I want to talk call and get you to sort of opine on what does this mean for the insurance industry, and then how do we bring this conversation around full circle so that we identify the problem and then we start to talk about potential solutions and is there an insurance component to all of this? So just stick with us. We’re going to take a little break. We’re going to be back after this. You’re listening to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers. Back in a moment.

Welcome back to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Buyers. I’m Paul Martin, and joining me today, Colin Rooke, the Commercial Risk Reduction Specialist with Butler Byers and two special guests. We’ve got Grant Douziech and Sherry Timmerman from Apex Consulting, and we’re talking about new legislation that’s come into effect, well just a couple of months ago that requires employers in Saskatchewan to have in place a workplace violence policy and prevention plan. Probably news to most of you who are listening to this, and that’s the very reason we’re having this conversation now. Just before the break, we were talking a little bit about Grant. Sherry, you laid it out for us. What are the legislative requirements saying, Colin, what do you hear when you hear that sort of stuff? What’s the insurance angle on this thing?

Colin Rooke:

I talked earlier at the beginning about the idea of employment practices liability, and this is an exposure. I would agree that the rollout was soft. I’ve been doing the show for quite some time, and we all have our sources of where we gather our information, and I spend quite a bit of time doing it. And to say it was difficult to track down would be an understatement. And so I think, yeah, the rollout is soft. However, in, and certainly for this province in a situation around employment practices, whether there’s coverage in place or not, which of course is our job to review. If you’re facing litigation, there’s been an incident, you’re going to be treated more favourably if you’ve done what’s required. And so our job is to sit down with our clients and talk about what’s new and emerging, or in this case, what you need to do right now if you haven’t done it. And so it’s important to have this conversation and say, again, when telling your story to the insurance market, we share that, hey, we’re working with a proactive customer right now that is aware that they require the required to have a violence policy and prevention plan. It’s been implemented, they’re up to date, the rollout’s been soft, but they were on the forefront of this and this is how they approach their business, and this is how they approach risk in general. And so it allows us to tell that story and open doors that were previously closed, negotiate for credits that are owed to those clients or those customers that the underwriters, they’re not just going to give out. And so it’s great to know, it’s great to work and help protect our client and point them in the right direction.

Paul Martin:

You raise a really interesting point there about litigation, potential litigation. I wonder, grant, Sherry, if you could provide a little insight into the wording of the legislation. I mean, what are the obligations on an employer and what are the potential penalties should they run foul of this legislation? And really what do they need? Are they now the police inside their workplace as well?

Sherry Timmerman:

Well, as part of the requirements, the government actually does have a pretty good guide on their website called Preventing Violence in the Workplace. And it details the steps that you need to go through. And one of those things, when you talk about if an incident does happen and what the requirements are, that’s why you need a policy in place. You need the procedures in place so you know how to investigate who you need to report to. All of those pieces are covered off, and all of those pieces are identified as requirements of businesses so that if a violent incident does happen, there’s procedures in place, there’s suspect identification forms, vehicle identification forms, incident forms, all of that that gets completed and shared with your OHS committee and then with the ministry responsible as well.

Paul Martin:

Well, that sounds rather onerous. I mean, it’s bad enough when you go to business school and they just teach you finance. I’m sure they don’t teach you investigative practices at business school, but that’s effectively what you’ve said they have to become.

Sherry Timmerman:

It is a requirement that if an incident happens, you do need to investigate it. And yes, there’s protocols around that. So it helps if you have someone who can investigate or you can call on a third party to perhaps help you out with that as it is a requirement if there is an incident.

Paul Martin:

Sounds like a great consulting opportunity for retired police officers. Have we experienced anything yet, or is this too early? Do we have any cases that anybody can learn from? Are you aware of any?

Sherry Timmerman:

Well, I think of those high risk places, there’s probably already been a lot of incidents. As Grant talked about earlier, the reason that the government is extending this is so for the health and safety of all workers, not just those in high risk areas. So some of the things that as we’ve gone through and done, some of the employer surveys we’ve uncovered with some of the different clients we’ve been working with is perhaps someone is walking to their vehicle and there’s a person near their vehicle and they don’t feel safe. So some of those things have been identified. I don’t know of any, I can’t think of any specific situations with any of our clients that we’ve identified other than some potential situations. And that’s why it’s really important to work with your OHS committee with your employees, identify all of those potential risks, and then come up with mitigation strategies.

Paul Martin:

Well, just off the top of my head, I think back to, you remember that law that came in for late night gas stations? I think it was called Danny’s Law or something like that. It was about a gas attendant who had been, I think killed, actually murdered or something. And so legislation was brought in, you have to prepay your gas. You really don’t interact face-to-face with the clerks anymore. Is that the genesis of where this comes from? There’s a tangible one we could talk. Is that the kind of thing that you think governments were responding to?

Grant Douziech:

I think it was more related to those type of incidents, but more incidents in general where I don’t know if you’ve, even in a grocery store, it’s not unusual when I’m standing in line to find somebody who’s be berating or threatening a poor grocery clerk who’s just swiping their food stuffs.

Paul Martin:

So it can be as much as just a verbal interchange. Colin, jump in here.

Colin Rooke:

Having gone through the training, I think I can add some context. We had to initially you think, no, we haven’t. We haven’t had anything like this. And then when you go through the definition of balance in the workplace, you think, okay, someone that is upset that their plates are canceled and it’s a heated argument at the front, and someone had to sort of step out and say, we’re just a conduit for SGI, we aren’t SGI, all those incidents where you think, well, it wasn’t a big deal. But when you think about, okay, yeah, someone was quite angry and okay, yeah, we had to come to the front or we had to usher someone out. I mean, that all constitutes potential violence in the workplace, and it’s all based on how that person was feeling at the time. And so we talked earlier about, I think Paul said that business owners have to be investigative. That’s why our process allows us to identify these and then say, look, you can do it yourself. We can tell you where to go. You can go to the government website and get the point, form of all this work you got to do, or we can put you in touch with someone that’s very well versed. We’ll make the training easy, provide those documents, and then you can focus on running your company and not be bogged down. So I think it’s really important that everyone listening is aware that no matter how big or small you need this, and regardless of maybe the origin could have been the correctionals high risk areas, like Grant was saying, that it’s just important that you understand your risks and then where to get help.

Paul Martin:

Well, thanks for this. I mean, we’ve run out time. What an interesting topic this is. And Colin, as always, I want to commend you for bringing these new, emerging and developing business issues to the forefront and allowing us to put ’em on the program and to Grant and Sherry, thanks for coming and providing us with the content, the detailed information, and the expert knowledge that will help any business owners listening to this actually become better at what they do. You’ve been listening to Risky Business Commercial Insurance with Butler Byers, I’m Paul Martin. Thanks for joining us, we’ll talk to you next time.